Dear Friends/wellwishers and visitors of this blog
This post is not a regular post on a Music Lesson Upload or a Raga Appreciation or yet another Download of a Live Concert. Please read through..
Today afternoon I received a telephone call from the office of M/s. Ranjani Gayatri asking me to delete all their concerts uploaded – (so far I had uploaded three concerts from year 2010) followed by a mail.
The person on the other side introduced himself as Mr.Krishnan and very politely enquired about the recent upload of the duo’s concert and wanted to know from where /who I got this download. Unfortunately, I could not recollect this as many of my friends/visitors of this blog share good music with me, which I share with all of you. I recollect that it was somewhere in the year 2011, I got this recording. Since the renditions were good, I shared it in my blog with sole intention of educative purpose. On the post itself I have mentioned that if any copyright claims occur, I shall delete it.
This was followed by a mail sent from their office. They wanted to inform all the visitors of this blog that their music cannot be shared. I am pasting their mail here as I do not have to type it again.
Dear Smt Anuradha,
Greetings. We are writing to you on behalf of Ranjani Gayatri. This is regarding your Upload of Ranjani and Gayatri’s concert recordings in your blog and website.
The artistes wish to inform you that this concert has been recorded without their knowledge and permission and should not be shared or distributed in any manner. We request you to please remove this concert from your blog immediately, and also destroy any copy of it in your possession. Possession and hosting online is a violation of the copyright of the artistes.
Thank you for your understanding.
Best wishes,
Kamakshi
From the office of Ranjani Gayatri
Dear Friends, Let me also inform you that I have deleted all recordings of Ranjani Gayatri from the server. If anybody has downloaded these from my blog, kindly delete/destroy it from your collection/possession. Also please do not sent me mails to post their concerts. (I am sorry to say this.) Even possessing amounts to violation of copyright as per their mail. I respect the copyright of the artist and hence removed all traces of Ranjani Gayatri from my computer.
Whenever I post a concert, the primary intention is the appreciation of art . If the art presented by the artist is very good and polished, all by-products like fame, followers, prosperity etc automatically pours in. The Trinity of Carnatic Music and other great composers (endless if I start naming) had the foresight of not copyrighting their creations so that the coming generations, could learn, hear , sing, propogate, promote and attain salvation through Nada Yoga. Let the Trinity of Carnatic Music and other great composers pardon the artists who supress the spread of Carnatic Music, and me if I am wrong.
But I wish to make a strong statement here that this blog appreciates mainly the art of Indian Carnatic Music and also assert that if the role is reversed, which means that art is subsidiary to the artist then, I am very sorry to say that there BEGINS THE COUNTDOWN OF THE ARTIST !!
This has been an eye-opener for me and from 2014 onwards, I will be concentrating mainly on upcoming talents whom I presume will not have any objection to hear/share/possess their music in the net as well as in the comforts of their own home. I hope that they continue to do so even after they start receiving all by-products of success like name, fame, money, riches and what not from the art! I pray to GOD that their focus do not shift from the art to the by-products of success. I am speaking about this only in the case of live concerts where the artist is justifiably compensated. Let the new talents also remember that the common man interested in Carnatic Music will not have the money, time or influence to get admitted to a live concert happening in a Sabha.
The reason behind writing this post is that my primary focus is teaching music and sharing whatever quantum of knowledge I have imbibed, not only to my students but anyone who is interested to know about carnatic music. There are instances where I am teaching without taking any monetary benefits from students who are very keen, truly deserving and passionately interested in music.
ANURADHA MAHESH 
Fully agree with you Madam. A time will come, many artists would long for their art to find a place in your blog.. Aum Tat Sat.
In the garb of Copyright, the artistes and their ilk (there are some more like them like TMK, Bombay Jayasri, Vijay Siva, Sikkil Gurucaran, yesterday boy Abhishek et al) express their greed for money, conservation, pretention of loving Carnatic Music and arrogance. They cannot be in the field for a long nif they do not bother Rasikas. Had the great composers forbade them through Copyrights, where would they be? Let them shun their ignorance and arrogance and act like humble Balamurali, TVS, TNS, MVS and other Great and real artistes.
i feel the remark is blatant there must be a balance after all everybody needs money do u think u srinivas would have spent atleast 50 lacs for his failed transplant playing mandolin will not help i dont say ranjani gayathri is right but they must show a balance a stalwart like TMK should not be remarked like that we should imagine Krishna is like sachin of music if u appreciate it go to stadium buy ticket
and watch if cant tune to doordarshan dont pass blatant remark on a genius like krishna
True. I only wish that some direct descendants of the Trinity and other composers sue these bogus music artists for rendering compositions of their ancestors without permission! . BTW TMK is certainly not after money. Kindly do not include him with the others especially Ranjani and Gayathri. Avariciousness at its height.
I wish to say that not all artistes are devoid of humility &toleration. Hence would request you to continue the good work of spreading the flavour of our music through your blog.
Dear Mrs. Anuradha Mahesh,
I am an ardent fan of your blog and have been recommending it to everyone who loves music. The kind of knowledge we have gained from your posts ( both musical and inspirational ) is unparalleled. My ipod is full of music downloaded from your blog. Starting with a handful of songs that were carnatic, I now listen to almost 95% carnatic thanks to the interest created by your blog. When my daughter is learning a new song in violin or vocal, I can immediately find it in your collection. we listen to it together and learn so much more.
There were many artists like madurai mani iyer who refused remuneration for a number of his concerts.
Please treat this incident as a minor mishap by ignorant people. Like the ” donkey” in one of your posts, we have to rise above this pettiness.
Your contribution to carnatic music however small you think it may be , I can tell you has touched more hearts and minds than you know. Your time has not been wasted. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts for truly taking carnatic music to the masses.
Phooey to Ranjani & Gayathri! In stead of appreciating that someone has taken the trouble to upload their music for people like me who are in no position to go to their concert, they are taking umbrage. If they think that just because I can hear their music on the PC, I will stop attending a live concert, if such a chance is available to me, then they don’t know a true rasika.
Well Said.
Thanks to internet more people are learning, downloading and listening to carnatic music. Obviously this will result in more sales of legal CDs and more revenue to the artists. This fact need to be understood and accepted by all. Deleting from this website is not going to remove it from other sharing forums. People will continue to share music through p2p links, which can never be stopped.
Piratebay was closed down, but what happened was 3 or 4 other sites like pirateproxy immediately filled the vacuum.
Fortunately there are many artistes who wouldn’t mind sharing their songs here and am sure you will be able to continue with your work of “spreading the light of carnatic music”.
Vijayasiva, TM Krishna, Malladi Brothers, Abhishek Raghuram, Bombay Jayashree, Ranjani Gayathri, …. this list of artists who object are going up…
Srikantan Krishnamurthy email2baabu@gmail.com
10:16 AM (1 hour ago)
to Anuradha
Dear Madam,
With much regret i read abt removal of recordings of Ranjani gayathri. I dont know why such established artists behave like this once they become popular and they are in demand. Even Malladi Bros do the same whenever their concerts come into internet circulation. Their music contribution is only abt 40% restricting their imaginations to raaga/swara elaborations and they are infringing copyrights of likes of Thyagaraja syamasastri & Muthuswami for 60% to give completion of their concerts. FRom where did they got permission to amass wealth from the creations of these legends. Do they share their royalty with the descendents of the music trinity who are scattered every where and some of the them may be living in penury.
Instead these artists should propagate timeless calssics through their music and share with upcoming generations to keep the carnatic music alive. I hope generosity is instilled atleast with next generation of artists. They donot understand the value of services you are rendering without any expectations. Kindly donot promote such selfish artists any more. What they are going to lose by allowing rasikas to hear their yearold concerts.
Kindly share this email to them please
regards,
babu
Very well said!
I swear! They are enriching themselves more than a human life deserves from the amazing compositions of the stalwarts. I have no clue as to how much they “paid” to learn it in order to “charge” people to listen to it. What they would’ve paid, in case they did pay, would be hardly anything in comparison to the value of the composition and the composer’s creativity. I am ashamed to hear this and hence will show my protest by not attending their concert ever. #anguished#
Dear Anuradha,
I just now saw your post abour RA/GA.. it is indeed sad when something like this happens.. with all due respect to everyone concerned your site is very clean and there are any number of illegal downloads that are happening on the net.. everything is available on torrents, that too for anyone and everyone and I wonder if they are able to curb it? As you say I cannot really understand all these issues raised by popular artists.. each concert becomes obsolete after certain amount of time has passed and why they want to deny the pleasure of music when no one can steal from their expertise..
Well said. Young artistes should remember that their fame and money is due to the appreciation of thousands of humble Rasikas who wish to hear good music and will bless them after hearing that. Pettiness and selfishness rule some greedy individuals. Just delete them from your memory. The loss is not yours. Please continue your good work. God Bless you!
Madam Anuradha should expose similar intolerance and arrogance among few more senior artists. At the same time she should praise other senior artists who perform for the sake of art and entertainment. Thanks
Despite of many huddles, river (rasika) will definitely reach its destiny – sea(Carnatic music).
Let be my great respect to all the artists who are trying to share the power and purpose of Carnatic music and also to the ones who are bounding to few limits.
Madam Anuradha Mahesh, my great full pranams at your feet, for putting your efforts in sharing the power and purpose of Carnatic music.
Regards,
Chakra
As long as one sees in sharing, a process that depletes whatever you may hold as your “rightful” possession, one will continue to be imprisoned by such demeaning perceptions that in our modern world have gained legitimacy as “copyrights”. Sharing enriches and expands our experience while protecting our “rights” dilutes it and damages our spirit. I see that the artistes that are objecting to open sharing of their performances are those that fill the hearts of their audiences with their inspired music soaked in the chaste Carnatic tradition. The defining feature of carnatic compositions is bhakti which knows no boundaries in its sharing.Can then their music coexist with a copyright mindset and yet blossom further?
May our artistes be inspired by the divinity of saintly Tyaagaraajas and the loving admiration pf their audiences than be guided by today’s copyright experts. God bless us all.
A.L.Narasimhan
having visited your blog and found that you were compelled to delete ra/ga concert i took a vow that i will never attend their concerts in future. i can not tolerate the mean mentality of the artists practising this devine art. here i wish to share one incident. recently i attended balamurali krishna concert in hyderabad and before the start of the concert one person ruthlessly announced that no recording in any form by media persons or any of the audience recording on their mobiles were not allowed and kept strict vigil through out the concert like an invigilator in an examination hall. some how it spoiled our mood and i could not enjoy the concert at all. all this is because a commercial angle is being given to the art form. this art has descended to our generations because of the supreme devotion by our elders who taught their disciples without anticipating any gains and followed the system of gurukula. may this devine art flourish forever.
Hello sbanand
Thanks for expressing out your true devotion and love to this divine art..
With great power/gift comes great responsibility
I don’t understand what an artist gains by preventing a rasika from hearing their concert. Carnatic Music artists are lucky that God has instilled a great gift into them that allows the Songs sung in praise of HIM, to be propagated through the artists to the millions who don’t have the capacity to sing.
By doing this, the artist is doing injustice to the great divine art. I can understand their albums cannot be shared. It is wrong and it will affect their income. But the same should not be applicable to publicly given concerts where the artist has been already compensated.
Well if the great composers were watching the happenings, I wonder what they will think.
I think while the intent of the blog is great I do find a few objections to stated views. I hope you will publish my point of view as well. I am not connected with any of the artists in anyway whatsoever and this opinion is only mine.
We are now living in an era where we are able to use technologies to advance our art and reach.
The artists have to make a living and their income comes from concerts and CDs that gets sold. They are trying to use the same technologies to make a living.
No business in CD production and distribution will deal with an artists whose hard work and rendering is made freely available. This directly affects the livelihood of the artists.
Major recording companies in the western world goes relentlessly after those that violate their copyrighted productions. Our artists have not yet gotten that sophisticated.
Some Indians in general like to avail of free stuff without feeling an ounce of responsibility to support the overall art. That may be a harsh statement but in all walks of life this kind of behavior is seen by a few.
There are ways to advance the art and still have such blogs. It is possible to have agreement with artists, keep track of sources of a concert as well as downloads and insist on some kind of membership revenue for the downloads. A large portion of this revenue stream could be made available to the artists. If the artists believe that there is authenticity behind the actions it would be a win-win for the artists, art and for blog posters & downloading population.
I know it is a lot of trouble to create such a system though the technology exists to do all this in a ‘New York minute’
I know Lalgudi Jayaramann’s son & daughter are making similar requests. Many websites and blog posters ignore such requests unless accompanied by a veiled threat of legal action.
Such is the world…
Let us follow Dharma and voluntarily pay what is due to the artists which they have legitimately earned.
I discovered your website accidentally today and thought I will comment on this.
My views presented here are not meant to castigate anyone but simply raise the awareness.
Perhaps these people who are lucky to benefit from modern copyright laws should find ways to contribute to many composers’ families (whose songs they are singing to make a living) who are living in poverty.
When i was growing up, one could listen to carnatic music only in the radio and in concerts, and perhaps in occasional Doordarshan shows and as such was limited to elite, carnatic music-aware people who had the knowledge to appreciate these artistes. Many artistes of olden times lived a rather poor life simply due to this lack of a following. The recent popularity of carnatic music is directly related to the general availability of music on the internet and popular shows that have promoted carnatic music. Clearly, the new generation of artistes want to benefit from this popularity but now they want to shut off the spigot that essentially brought them the fame. Those facebook pages through which they promote their concerts free and technology are great!
Talk about people wanting free things…
Did you realize the hypocrisy in your comment?
I accidentally bumped into site and shocked at this blog post where the author seems peeved to have take the audio down. Reading through I am more shocked at the comments. Free riders complaining that the party is over.
Yours is probably the only sanest comment amongst a delude of idiocy.
I am sure most of you have enough money to buy all the CDs/records that you wish to hear, but will never buy one.
Not only an ounce of gratitude is shown to the artists for listening to their audio for free, some not only complain but also curse. May these folks live in interesting times!
How dare they criticize a person who asked their property not be stolen? I am sure all of these guys who complain about Ra-Ga asserting their rights will do the same thing, if ever they produce something that is!!
The artists are not shutting down anything. We have laws that we are obligated to follow. The right law protect the interest of art, artists and hence the listening public at large.
In olden days there seemingly was a value in the society to protecting Dharma so that it protected everyone. The same cannot be said in today’s world in my view.
First of all everyone benefits from right laws including copyright laws. Right laws are those that are aligned with Dharma. Copyright laws in my view are aligned with our concept of Dharma because it enables the market to operate in a manner that is win-win for everyone allowing people to enter into the profession of advancing the art.
The poor families of composers need to be supported by artists, Rasikas and media production companies. It is not the exclusive responsibility of artists only.
Each artist brings his or her own improvisations and variations which is why Rasikas like to listen to the same song rendered by many different artists. The artists are bringing their own value in addition to what the composers have provided. Regardless of how artists run their lives there is no reason why any Rasika may want to deny them their legitimate earning via sale of CDs etc.
Everyone is leveraging the technology to improving our life. Facebook pages and other such innovations are used by all kinds of businesses and Facebook company benefits too. It permits interaction by Rasikas with the artists more easily benefiting Rasikas too.
I hope the blog owner who seem to want to do the right thing will permit me to make a rather bold statement.
I think ‘borrowing’ software without proper license, copying and distributing music that destroys income stream for artists, creating and distributing pdf versions of books that may have taken years to produce and acts like this all amount to acts of Adharma because they are all forms of modern day thievery.
Most people would not dream of lifting an item out of a shop. But they may not view taking intellectual property and other non-material items like software as acts of stealing.
If they come to view it this way they will not need copyright laws or any other laws to do the right thing.
I don’t think you understood what I wrote. Copyright and enforcing copyright is not automatic but it is optional. In other words, people can opt not to copyright a piece of software, or a performance, or a song and then it becomes available to everyone. Examples are software written by volunteers. The law provides you the option but you can waive it but there is NO OBLIGATION to copyright anything. So please, try to understand what others write and learn to respect other’s opinions before you write “bold” statements and call people thieves.
My best wishes for RaGa’s CD sales to skyrocket now that this blog has been deleted of their songs.
I fully understood what you and others are writing. Please try to understand what I wrote.
You want law and enforcers of law as a sole means to enforce what the right thing to do is. I am talking about doing the right thing even if a law is not spelled out because we all are endowed with a sense and wisdom to know what is right.
What I was talking about is what is right and what is Dharma.
I have known of people who have attended concerts and surreptitiously recorded and when ‘caught’ all they could say was that ‘No one told me we are not supposed to do this’.
When an artist enforces a copyright law there is no need to feel bitter. Instead if we are true supporters of art let us pay our fair share to all artists and not feel a sense of entitlement for free stuff unless an artist has voluntarily and explicitly made them available unconditionally.
In other words the standards to ‘copy and distribute’ ought to be *only when* explicit and unsolicited permission to copy and distribute is provided voluntarily by all the stakeholders (artists, organizers of a concert, CD companies etc).
Lack of someone enforcing a copy right law either because they are unaware or they do not know how to enforce does not mean the public is entitled to free distribution. To do so is act of Adharma. There are no ways to talk around it.
I personally do not care whose albums gets sold more or less. It is irrelevant to the point made.
Your dedication to the classical music is impeccable.
We benefited so much especially listening to the old music recordings you have shared with us with so much of diligence and affection.
Personally speaking there is nothing like copy right (for any artist) as nothing is strictly original produced by the artists from music or any other forms of arts.
Every artist is a recycler in fact.
The human brain is not a creator but reactor as it just recycles everything one sees and listens.
Personally I believe that, except nature nothing can be original and nothing can be creative.
Anyhow I come back to my limitations by admitting that my personal beliefs are different from legal issues and rules.
Anuradhaji, your service to the Carnatic Music and to all Carnatic Music lovers is MONUMENTAL.
Thank you so much and we support you in everything you do.
It pains when I read this topic anywhere. Anuradha Mahesh madam you are doing a divine service to the rasikas. Hence, please do continue to do it. Money is everything in this world for some. We cannot expect them to be like Thyagaraja swamigal and all anymore. We should fight against this copyright matter unitedly. It stinks when people involve money in such divine works. People in general have become self centered and those who are pious are of no value to them. But nature will prove and make them understand. Lets see how much money and music they are able to take away with them.
I do not live in India and perhaps my view points may not resonate with many here.
I think in today’s world there are many ways to listen to a nice concert – one can go to a concert hall, or get a CD or hear music files played in a number of instruments like ipod etc.
Gone are the days when an artist simply performed for a coconut and some fruits.
Many artists worldwide rely on sales of their albums to support their life during retirement years. In fact some artists in the west had made more money after their death which becomes a legacy they pass onto their heirs.
I know the blog owner started this blog with noble goals.
In the era of digital media, reproduction of a piece of music is 100% which means once a concert is posted anywhere it can be copied without distortion unlike copying an audio tape.
This will mean that no recording company will be interested in creating CD and other media sales of music that is freely available.
This will mean that the so called Rasikas are actually stealing possible retirement source of income of the very artists they cherish. Some may not see it this way which is why I am posting this note.
I know people are used to free stuff and when that is challenged it is easy to feel self righteous and say ‘ look at those money hungry artists’ for wanting to insist on copyright laws to protect their possible source of income.
I have a suggestion for whatever it is worth.
The blog can serve young artists by introducing them to the Rasikas though their concerts (after obtaining due permissions of course).
For all other concerts it may be possible to make the download available for appropriate cost which can be sent to all the artists (again with permission of the artists).
Dear Ma’am, I have made many attempts to learn singing since childhood and every time i reach keerthanam my learning stops due to various reasons as my studies, relocation, job, vocal damage due to thyroid etc. Now i have found your website which is adequate enough for my passion to sing again (at least for myself or my family) and you have a healing voice, a truly blessed singer. I would like to learn and sing along from the basic lessons but i was not able to download any. It tells me the maximum limit of download is over wherein i have not downloaded a single one. Also your website (http://www.anuradhamahesh.in/) seems under restructuring. Please let me know how can i get the basic lessons.
.May be there are excessive downloads for the day..Try it some other day..
As mathematics is the queen of sciences music is the queen of all arts; and, carnatic music is the queen of all music genres And as art is the expression of the self a performing artiste naturally expresses his/her self. but it no longer seems to be the case. carnatic music has become a commodity which is being aggressively marketed labelling the artiste as a brand. one can easily find the artistes aggressively practising the most modern business techniques. in the process carnatic music has become a victim. good carnatic music is generally not available and when and if available its inaccessible. people should realise mere knowledge and skill does not make a man complete unless you imbibe a strong value system. but its heartening to find people do yeomen service to the great art. raksho rakshathi rakshithaha.
good
Ma’m, appreciate this. May God bless with all that you wish for…
Almost everyone here seems to think that R-G are being greedy by not allowing recordings of their concerts to be posted. Whether that is good business or not, they have a right to make a living and the copyright laws are there to protect them. I am sure that all these people who are posting here have ways to earn money, and would not like it if someone stole their work, claiming ‘art is wonderful’ or some such nonsense.
Surely you aren’t implying that the author of this blog is ‘stealing’ from these artistes by sharing a video of their concert? Copyright laws (or any other laws for that matter) exist for protection of an artist’s (monetary) interest, but they cannot be applied without context or reason.
So, artists want to make money by singing the compositions of eminent composers who unfortunately did not have the concept of copyright in their days. Even if it was prevalent these great souls would not have exercised the rights.
There is a difference between earning and making money. Was the Carnatic Trinity making money ? Making money is a misnomer in the realm of Carnatic Music.
Such attempt is a sick soul’s crass commercialisation of a divine field.
It is time the government allows copyrights only for one’s own composition. What if Sudhanadha Bharathiyar’s descendents claim copyrights for ” Thookiya Thiruvadi ” and seek monetary gains each time an artist renders this song ? And extend this concept to descendants of all other great composers .
Giri,
Get some education. Dont die in ignorance.
Retroactively applying law is nonsense. Back in those days, no copyrighted law existed, so any composer/artist did not have a reasonable expectation that their work will be copied/reproduced without their permission. They might’ve had objections, but there was not against the law.
Fast forward today, even inane comments like the ones on this post have copyright. I just cannot peddle it for profit/service without your consents. Also, for any artist there is a reasonable expectation that their work will be protected.
Imagine if all the teachers and music gurus slapped their students with a copyright infringement notice every time the student performed/taught a composition created by the teacher. I wonder what the gurus of the Ra-Ga would feel about this particular situation. I used to be a big fan of their music and singing. I will enjoy it a little less hence forth.
Ram,
keep you education to yourself and live in your glory.
The theme is not about copyright per se but its application to Carnatic music. The concept of copyright and patent was infused from the west where many people will commercialise any damn thing to make a penny. This is not our ethos , certainly not to issues leaning towards divinity least of all the compositions of our great composers who gave everything freely.
Please read my comment again to understand the context I am trying to drive at.
Also, if you can get to know when and why Thygaraja sang ” Nidi chala Sukama” it is likely that you may understand that it was not money, money , money always in the realm of Carnatic music.
You are probably not getting the message and probably never will.
You seem like a nice guy who, if ability permitting, will provide concerts and never object to if people record and distribute it for profit/charity/fun without your consent and monetary consideration. Good for you and I am glad you will be able to do that. Probably, ability permitting , I will do that as well.
Heck, if I were to go to my historical roots, I am not even allowed to work for money or earn wealth. But I work for money, earn wealth and distribute it in the way I see fit.
But, however rightful/pious I think I am, I still have no right to say how other people should conduct their lives as long as it doesn’t interfere with mine. By telling Ra-Ga not to object for stuff stolen from them, we are exactly doing that.
Rasikas who have honorable intent to protect and save the world of Carnatic music must find ways to protect artists and their family by paying for what they get. If one wants free stuff even of RaGa performances there are many of their concerts (RaGa) posted in YouTube. These are some of their best as well because you can see that in terms of number of views they top the chart compared to any others.
As I said before I think the blog owner started this with best of intent. She might consider collecting voluntary donations from people who download and pass them onto the artists and their families.
All others who are used to the free stuff it is disappointing if a given artist stops this practice. But please do not act righteous while expressing your real intent to get free stuff without paying
TS,
Comments on this blog have been, said and unsaid, in focussing their views particularly in respect to this blog and to the request of R and G group to this blog owner who is certainly propagating the rendering of good artists with noble intent. Nobody spoke about free stuff , instead, most were only debating about copyright and its ethical applicability to compositions in Carnatic music.
What is unique about Carnatic music that warrants a special copyright. Why isn’t the copyright as applied to Western Classical, Hindustani or other classical systems not apply to Carnatic music. Is it because the artists are very rich or the rasikas are very poor?
It is all about getting free stuff only and no one has to speak about it.
Copyright ‘protection’ is needed when there is widespread abuse across the board for grabbing stuff that is unearned. I have known people that surreptitiously recorded a concert many years ago though that person could have purchased the same afterwards from the organizers. The person’s initial defense was that there was no rule or law prohibiting it.
There are people who freely copy software from friends and relatives without thinking that what they are doing is adharmic act and act of thievery.
Today laws in many countries are there to protect against such acts.
If there is a modern composer whose work is very much needed then that person has every right to seek copyright protection.
The idea of honor system does not work with many people. Many Indians justify their true intent by making it an academic issue. There is no reasonable way to talk to them. The best thing to do is to use the force of law to stop their behaviour.
Having said this, there are true Raikas who want to see the art thrive. Most such people have no problem paying for what they want.
Couldn’t agree with you
It will be nice if you can spend some time and try to understand the context of my comments instead of introducing non irrelevant dimensions and harping on them.
TS,
Your interest to introduce a parallel conversation is either out of a superfluous intent to advocate the purpose of a copyright, which is not disputed by any, or , out of ignorance of the central issue being debated.
No one said said that one does not want to pay for what they like to listen.
The debate is purely on the ethics behind the applicability of copyright to Carnatic Music in this blog.
True , no one has the right to question the desire of the artists’ right to exercise the copyright provision . No one questioned the artist’s prerogative to be greedy or avaricious. But that again is not what is being debated.
As long as you view and refer to Carnatic Music as a ” stuff ” you will continue to indulge in wasteful sophistry of lecturing on the design of copyright.
Evolved minds’ perception of Carnatic Music is not that of a commodity. It is derogatory. It is loathsome .
But you haven’t explained to a common man like me why Carnatic Music is beyond copyright. Why cannot (or should not) it be looked at the basic level of someone putting in countless hours of practice only and not get copyright protection for it.
As you rightly said, it is not a commodity and this is exactly why copyright protection is needed.
Correct, sramji04. These ‘rasikas’ such as Giri claim to love music, but they want to deny their musicians a decent livelihood and dignity that the government has agreed is a reasonable way (in the form of copyright), and would prefer that they go around to some king’s court with a begging bowl for patronage. This will satisfy their need for their idols to be beyond the lure of crass money.
The youtube channels that post free concerts probably get money from their advertisers, btw, but I don’t see Giri complaining about it. Because it is free and available to him.
Giri,
There is no other core issue being complained about in this blog. If someone wants to protect any artform in today’s world they should be willing to not advocate getting free stuff which is thievery of potential retirement income of the artists. I will not repeat what I have already written why getting free stuff affects retirement income of artists.
Compared to other artists of equal eminence only the Carnatic musicians are the poor lot.
We live in an age where digital recording can be reproduced 100% without any loss and distributed over the world in all kinds of forms. People want to enjoy listening in their ipods and whatnot but they want artists who have put their whole life towards the art to live by the norms of 18th century.
Behind all these fanciful discussion about art etc there is an ugly truth which no one likes to hear. There is no reasonable way to deal with people who do not want to pay their fair share .
I would advocate every artist to seek protection under copyright act and go after people that are abusive.
I think such blogs should really feature up and coming artists and introduce them to the world. There should still be some facilities for voluntary donation to give to the up and coming artists. That is the way to protect the artform in this century.
Why denigrate artists who seek copyright protection? It is a height of hypocrisy in my view.
Do you know that RaGa teaches their students without any fee ? I am told they have given free concerts. I have very reliable source from where I have heard this. Therefore calling artists greedy reveals the true intent which is to get free stuff. There is no evolution of mind in making such statements.
People want to enjoy listening in their ipods and whatnot but they want artists who have put their whole life towards the art to live by the norms of 18th century.
Well said, TS.
TS,
You are simply being stubborn to talk like a scratched record, lecturing on unspoken issues. . Your argumentative, false accusation of the few who are debating the core issue on an entirely different plane, of a pecuniary disposition based on your imagination, is purely a red herring , appealing to the group. Knowing only to spell ‘Dharma’ and not the meaning of it, is once again adharma.
Giri,
All I am doing is to present the naked truth under the veil of talking about art and exposing the hypocrisy associated with rationalizations (“seemingly rational lies”) stated . As I have said before my statements are not directed towards the blog owner who is running the blog for all the right reasons.
My comments are only directed at those that are not being straight.
You are welcome to enlighten what the core issues are other than what I have stated. Make a compelling case why copyright protection laws are detrimental to the art.
Please do not talk about composers of past centuries and that they did not copyright their creation. That is silly, We are here now in the 21st century communicating via this blog.
Let me say what is Dharma which is beyond just a spelling.
We do not need any scriptures to understand what samanya dharma or common sense dharma is . We are, as human beings wired to know what holds this universe together at its core level. What is needed is simply being able to take a moment and perceive the truth.
No one has to teach that thievery is adharma for example.
Telling rational lies under the pretext of other lofty goals is adharma.
In fact dharma is defined as follows (assuming you can read Sanskrit)
धारणाद्धर्ममित्याहु: धर्मो धारयते प्रजा: |
यस्याद्धारणसंयुक्तं स धर्म इति निश्चय: ||
The simple statement is धारयति इति धर्मः
Meaning that which holds the universe/ people/ society together is Dharma
A dedicated artist spends their life devoted to furthering the art. Not all of them make to the top but as human beings even the top artists are motivated to lead a life style comparable to that of their peers. They want to deliver their work in multimodal means – live concerts, radio, TV, CDs, online etc,
If carnatic musicians are not adequately compensated comparable to other musicians, then the incentive for people to dedicate their life to carnatic music will drop killing the art over time.
Copyright protection is needed to protect the artists in today’s world. This is particularization of the Samanya Dharma in this context,
If people simply record concerts and freely distribute them worldwide then no one will buy the CDs, In fact no producer would want to create CDs which tend to be like retirement and long term income for the artists.
So to protect art and artists from greedy people it is necessary to have laws and enforce them.
The laws are in alignment with Dharma as stated above because the laws protect the system of how art is groomed and cared for.
Try to understand and then respond if you must.
TS,
I believe you are wasting your time.
Through your many posts you have explained why Carnatic music (or any music for that matter) requires copyright and why stealing is not just bad idea (for the art) but plain wrong and adharmic. Any person who is open to understanding different view points and wanting to do the right thing will get it.
But I believe you are mostly dealing with folks who are dogmatic in their opinion that one who has the privilege of being robbed should not complain for the purported greater good (whatever that is). These are probably folks who think they will never require the protection of copyright because they will never produce anything of value to others.
TS,
off on a tangent once again with the same old argument !
sramji04 –
You hit the nail on the head with your last line!
“These are probably folks who think they will never require the protection of copyright because they will never produce anything of value to others.”
I have not seen any substantive comments other than some bickering so far. So indeed it makes no sense to waste time with such posts.
Yes , it will be a waste of time for one who just refuses to read and comprehend what the other person is commenting on but simply reel off a lopsided argument . Try to contest what one says not what one did not say. That is the first step to a meaningful debate.
I too would like a world where Carnatic music, with its high devotional content and temple culture, is devoid of commercialism. But those days are gone. In fact, many temples are quite commercial, with payment for special darshan lines, high-paid priests, and government gathering up the spoils. Brahmins are not supposed to work for wealth or accumulate it, but we now nowadays that that is simply not true. Many famous Carnatic musicians were from Devadasi families where music was part of their trade, and they earned money from wealthy patrons.
Even now, Carnatic musicians are far less commercial than other kinds of musicians, I believe (other than, perhaps, folk musicians who work for peanuts). For example, they don’t ask for royalties when someone else performs their compositions. So let the musicians decide whether they want to make use of copyright laws and how they want to use their creative work without the rasikas calling them greedy unless they are on a pedestal of anti-commercialism.
Dear Anuradha madam, you doing a yeoman service to carnatic music rasikas and request you to continue this. For the R & G due, ” the countdown started”. The great singer Smt.D.K.Pattammal with all humbleness at a award function to her said, “carnatic music is ocean, i know not even my handful of it”. These are small bubble in the ocean. Good that you have brought to the notice of all.
This type of behavior i generally see in south indian artists. their demands are worst. they tell all cock & bull stories about the propaganda of music. what all they say is bullshit. they just want money. nothing else
R & G are worst & greedy people. may be that is the reason for the past 40 years they are singing and not yet received any recognition from any government organization. except appreciating each & other nothing will be there. there are many more artistes who can sing better. as people say God is watching. if any concert is requested the first question will be how much you pay. don’t know whether only r & g are like this or all the other artistes are also like this.
There is no pain. Let their music be removed from every forum. Cant understand why they still have some greed if students preserve their music.
Greetings Mrs. Anuradha Mahesh,
Very silly not to propagate their divine gift to the music world and to people who can’t reach to their concert. They are the big losers. Now you will have some space to upload music of some deserving upcoming artists.
In the Facebook pages of most of the artistes atleast now and then their songs will be posted. Very few artists like Raga never post even a single song in facebook, instead we get to read only evocative adulations from their own disciples, followers, their photo ops with audience, travel itinerary, etc. which are purely advertisements and expression of self pride.
I grew up in the US when there was no internet, the 1980s, and many traveling carnatic artists like MLV, Maharajapuram Santhanam, TVS, Mandolin Srinivas – they all happily allowed us to record (on cassette!). Having a recording of those concerts is like having an invaluable treasure. Maybe these internet postings of current blockbuster performers can be viewed in the same vein as well? Just my two cents.
But if musicans feel that they own rights to their performances, then they should make it clear before the concert starts – kind of like the moderators do at the beginning of all the Chennai music academy lecture demonstrations. Otherwise no complaints should be made against recordings.